Harness Up! with Haste Draft Horses and Mules

Built by Mules: Movies, Mountain Packing & Wisdom from a True Mule Man

• Haste Draft Horses and Mules • Episode 25

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The reins pass from snowless sleigh rides in Colorado to wall tents in Utah’s high country, then straight onto a movie set where a good team might wait hours to hear “action.” We sit down with outfitter and wrangler Randy Melton of Flying J Outfitters to unpack what it really takes to build mule teams that outwork draft horses in the mountains and stay rock-steady under the lights of Hollywood.

Randy shares how he and his wife Alicia juggle guiding hunts in the Uinta Mountains with supplying teams, wagons, and stagecoaches to productions like Horizon and 1923. He opens up about the practical side of breeding—replacing a lost mammoth jack with a young, 16-hand prospect to throw bigger, calmer, hard-footed colts—and why draft-cross, standard-height mules make the best packers when you’re hanging panniers fast at a busy trailhead. We dive into sawbuck versus Decker saddles, double-diamond hitches, packing grain for long camps, and the quiet hero of backcountry logistics: InReach satellite texting.

The stories stretch from a four-up hitch in the Army cavalry detachment to wrangling on set with Kevin Costner and helping a nervous Leonardo DiCaprio relax into a saddle. Along the way, Randy explains why continuity can nix braided tails, why “good mules ain’t cheap and cheap mules ain’t good,” and how patience turns young stock into steady partners that appreciate the word “woe.” If you’ve ever wondered how film-ready teams are made, how outfitters keep remote camps running for weeks, or why seasoned hands choose mules over horses for heavy work, this one’s for you.

Ready to hear the grit, the gear, and the hard-won wisdom behind truly reliable teams? Hit play, subscribe for more conversations from the wagon seat, and share this episode with a friend who loves mules, mountains, or great stories. Your reviews help more folks find the show—what part grabbed you most?

Check out Randy's website - https://www.flyingjoutfitters.com/

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Find us online at DraftHorsesAndMulesForSale.com

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Harness Up with Haste Draft Horses and Mules, where we talk all things related to these magnificent animals. From their history and uses to training and care, we cover it all. Join us as we chat with experts and enthusiasts in the field, share stories and tips, and explore the world of craft horses and mules. Whether you're a seasoned owner or just curious about these gentle giants, this podcast is for you. So harness up and join Haste Craft Horses and Mules for some lively discussions about these God-given creatures.

SPEAKER_03:

Boy, hope everybody's doing good and Merry Christmas to everybody. I got the Christmas color on and the wreath in the background, so I'm trying here, alright? But um, thank you all so much. God bless you for coming on and listening to these podcasts. It means the world for us, and we sure appreciate you. Without y'all listening, there'd be no reason to even record one. So alright, right here, looking at me here on the other side of this screen. I'm getting used to these remote podcasts, and it's working real good. This is Mr. Randy Melton. Randy, say hello to the folks there. Hello, folks there. Me and Randy go way back. How far, Randy? What? Gosh. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. I sold Randy some mules and uh several mules, actually. Several phone to him a whole lot and was actually all the way at his house and didn't even get to meet him face to face, then shake his hand. And still till today, we've never met and shook each other's hand. Never met. Never have. But we're going to someday. We gotta make that happen. So Yes, sir. We sure do. Randy lives out. Where do you tell the folks where you live, Randy, and a little bit about you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, my wife and I live in La Pointe, Utah, where we we have an outfitting business. And then we work a lot of mule teams, uh, mostly this time of year during Christmas season, doing sleigh rides in Colorado. And then we also use those same mules in our outfitting business, packing into the backcountry, you know, as as pack mules and as riding mules. And then when we're not doing that, we also supply uh mule teams and wagons and stuff for the for the film industry doing the background wagon work and stunts and all that kind of stuff. That's pretty awesome. So you're in Colorado now, right? I mean, me and Alicia are here until the first of the year, then we'll go back to Utah. All right.

SPEAKER_03:

You won't what will you do when you get back home?

SPEAKER_01:

When we get back home, we're in the middle of building a house right now, and then I'm gonna be there until February. And then in February I gotta head to Buffalo, New York with uh some wagons and teams and mules and horses for a film we're doing up there. Well, that'll be a trip. Yeah, I've never been up there. Well, you're you're in for a treat. We're filming right there, I guess, by Niagara Falls and all that, and I know it's it's it's gonna be cold, but uh we're I'm ready for it.

SPEAKER_03:

Are you gonna go see Niagara Falls? You got to.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm planning on going to see that, and then I I understand that you can actually take a ride on the Erie Canal there, and they're still pulling the barges with mules along the along the canal.

SPEAKER_03:

What about coming down south when you leave Buffalo and seeing us?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that'll just depend on the time frame, and I know the movie is gonna go at least two months, but that's definitely a good idea. I'll have uh convoy of trucks, trailers, wagons, and all that stuff that'll be headed back to to Utah, so we'll have to plan for that. Is Phil Billy going with you? Yes, he is. Phil Billy is uh is coming from Missouri, and then other friends of mine, Dennis Moore and his crew, are coming from Blanco, Texas, and they're gonna convoy up together.

SPEAKER_03:

How long have you been doing the movie thing? Only about fifteen years. What was some of the movies you've worked on? Can you talk about that on here, probably? I'm sorry, that last part broke up a little bit. Some of the movies you've worked on, like can you tell the folks some of the movies you've been a part of?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, sure. Let's see. We started it started out on a show called Underground, and then after that we had Fear Street and Killers of the Flower Moon, Underground, or I mean uh Horizon 1, 2, and 3, which 2 and 3 hasn't come out yet, just Horizon 1. And then I had mules on 1923 last year. We did a film called Seven Days in August, where I had uh the four-up mule hitch on a stagecoach for that one. Uh so uh The Chosen. We were on The Chosen, our donkey was on that show. Gores commercial. Gosh, there's a lot more. I just I did an Australian film last year that they filmed it in Utah. I had uh mule team on that and the Chuck Wagon.

SPEAKER_03:

There's a big demand for that if you've got the stuff to do it and know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the the first time I ever had a team of mules on the movies, they they they you know, they kind of got a black eye because you know a lot of people buy renegade mules or whatever or don't know how to handle them, but no one could believe how good and quiet my mules were. And so a lot of film companies shy away from mules because people don't have good broke mules, but I our mules work for a living. They appreciate the word woe. And then you know, because 90% of the day on a movie set, you're just sitting around waiting, you know, on set, and a lot of animals get impatient for that. But when I say woe, most of my mules turned into statues.

SPEAKER_03:

What was it like working with Kevin Cosner? I'm I'm a huge fan of his. We watch all his stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Kevin was awesome. Kevin honestly was probably hands down the best director I've ever been with. He understands the livestock and the the demands on the Wrangler crew, and because he's a writer, you know, and under and likes and he's a big he likes mules. And and I never once have ever seen Kevin lose his temper, get mad, or speak down to anyone. He's always super polite to everybody and treats the guy that cleans the toilets just as good as the lead actors.

SPEAKER_03:

That's that's that's something to say there. A lot of those guys you wouldn't think they'd really be that way.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of them ain't. But I I've been lucky, you know, to to work with guys like him and and and and with the good crews that I've been with.

SPEAKER_03:

As you all can tell by the way Randy's dressed there, he could have been born a hundred and fifty years too late, maybe, or something. Tell us about them teeth hanging around your neck, Randy. Well, m actually they're claws. I can't see 'em that good. Yeah, there they are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh bear claws and uh there's a mountain lion claw on there that my wife killed, and uh elk teeth and elk ivories. That's cool. And some turkey spurs from Missouri.

SPEAKER_03:

What kind of hat are you wearing?

SPEAKER_01:

This is a custom made hat. It's made by an old boy out of New Mexico, Herring. His name Herring Hats. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a five-inch brim?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know. Is it? Maybe even a six-inch brim.

SPEAKER_03:

Wow. All right. Let's talk about your outfitting business some. I want the folks may be interested in hearing some of that. What you do in that and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

So my wife's grandpa started the outfitting business back in the 70s, and she was with him her whole life. And then when he passed away, she took over running it, and we're based in Utah, and we're in the UNA Mountains, which is the northern border of Utah between Utah and Wyoming, and we're in the Roadless Book Cliffs, which is just west of Grand Junction, Colorado, and on the Ashley. Beautiful country. Yeah, it is really pretty. It's really pretty country.

SPEAKER_03:

So you take folks on hunting trips, pack trips, you take 'em out on rides, whatever they want to do, really.

SPEAKER_01:

Hunting and fishing and uh trail rides.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. How many mules are you running for that? Are you doing you got a lot of horses too, I'm sure, but we actually have more mules than horses.

SPEAKER_01:

We're right at 60 head right now.

SPEAKER_03:

Are you still raising a lot of colts?

SPEAKER_01:

We are. And well, we uh lost our Jack two years ago, and uh he was a big mammoth jack, and he was throwing really big mule colts, and so we lost him to a very weird, rare kidney disease. Alicia got on the internet and she found a Jack in Houston, Texas. And so I jumped in the truck, drove down to Houston, and we bought this new Jack, and uh he's coming, he's two-year-old, he'll be three this spring, and we're gonna be standing him for the first time. And he's huge. He's already 16 hands tall and uh still growing, and so we're thinking he's gonna throw some big Colts. He's a solid kind of a you know, the traditional gray with the dun stripes, and whereas Pepper Jack or other Jack, he was a Sabino Jack throwing the painted mules. Uh so we're we're expecting to get, you know, more dunns and blacks and bays out of this new Jack. That'll be a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, we loved our old Jack. He was super gentle, threw really good, quiet colts, but he was throwing a lot of those uh, you know, white mules with the white hooves that don't really stand up in the mountains as good as uh maybe a salad co.

SPEAKER_03:

You mainly breeding quarter mares, or what are you mainly going to breed of your own?

SPEAKER_01:

We're breeding a little everything. We got quarter mares, appy mares, we've got what else? We got a Ferisian cross mare that uh we're we got a colt out of, and he is really nice. Yeah, registered quarter mares. I our my goal is though, I'd like to get a couple of Pershawn mares to get some of these big giant mules like what I've like what I bought from you and uh and our in my Myrtle. Yeah, like Mandy and Myrtle. I know where you worked all the We we took Mandy and Myrtle on a 10-mile trip yesterday up in the mountains with the wagon.

SPEAKER_03:

What's this about no snow in Colorado?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I tell you, I don't know. I I've been doing the sleigh rides here ever since I got out of the army in 06, and I've never not been able to run a sleigh by Thanksgiving, and we brought two sleighs with us and one wagon, and I we had to go get another daggum wagon because there's no snow. I mean, we got snow up above us and off in the woods, but all there's no snow in town or or even in the meadows around here. I had been fifty degrees every day.

SPEAKER_03:

I had a couple calls yesterday of Colorado people wanting to buy wagons from me. I'll be darn. Need them now. Now, not tomorrow now.

SPEAKER_01:

Because they're running used to running slays and they don't have any wagons? And they're gonna lose a lot of income. So luckily I was fortunate enough we brought a wagonette with us, a 12-person wagonette, and then I've some friends lived over in Hoskiss that had a one of them pioneer wagons, and so I ran over and got it, and uh so we're getting by, but we sure wish we had some snow because I'd rather be running sleighs, because a lot of people don't want a wagon ride, they want a sleigh ride.

SPEAKER_03:

It's gonna be sixty degrees here on Christmas. That's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, uh they're we're talking, well we had a snowstorm two weeks ago. It dumped about a foot and a half of snow, and I ran the sleigh, and then two days later it was fifty degrees, and it's been fifty degrees every day since.

SPEAKER_03:

What branch of the service was you in, Randy? I was in the army. How many years? Fifteen. Wow. Straight out of high school into the service?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I went I joined the army in nineteen ninety-two and uh went into the eighty-second airborne and and did all that high speed stuff, jumping out of airplanes and doing the infantry mission there. And then I got out of the army and then just cowboyed all over the country, rodeoing and and working on ranches and stuff and outfitting and packing mules, and then uh after nine eleven when the war kicked off, I re-enlisted, went back in the army.

SPEAKER_03:

So you how many uh tours did you do?

SPEAKER_01:

Did you just do the one to Well, my my f tour to Iraq was a year and a half, so it really kind of counted as two tours. And then I was I was with the first cavalry division then, and then when I got back from Iraq, then I went to the first cavalry division horse detachment where my job was driving a four-up mule hitch for the army.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that fits you good. Yeah, it was a pretty good gig. It was. Well, thank you for your service, Randy. Well, thank you. Appreciate that. Without you, we couldn't ride mules and pack mules and drive them probably.

SPEAKER_01:

I always tell people that thank you for being the kind of American we're serving for.

SPEAKER_03:

That's right, yep. I appreciate it. What about the bales on the mule tail? Do you shave bales on your tails or not?

SPEAKER_01:

So I always have. I always since I've always done that, but since I've started working in the movie business, I had to quit bailing the mule's tail because of continuity purposes. Because, you know, like in like example in Horizon, we had uh, you know, cavalry stuff, and I was pulling wagons, army wagons, as a cavalryman in uh in Horizon, but then the same mules would be in another scene where they were just skidding logs with them or pulling a wagon in a wagon train or whatever, and if the bull mule's tails would have been bailed, bailed, it would have uh messed up the continuity of the movie. So I've had to quit bailing the mule's tails for now.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But I always did that.

SPEAKER_03:

If they come after you to be a character in a movie, would you do it?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I have. You have? I have. Uh I was a stagecoach driver last year in a movie called Seven Days in August, where uh I didn't know I was gonna be like casted casted until I was in Kansas, and I called the old boy up, the the the producer, and was talking to him, and uh and and he he sent the the script and all that, and I didn't know I had speaking lines until the day before. And my wife came up to me, at least she said, You know you got lines. I said, No, I don't have have lines. I'm I'm not yep, here's your here's your lines right here. So I had and I stressed about that all the way there. But then the producer said, just look, just look mad, aggravated, and and uh act like you don't really care for these guys too much, and that was pretty easy to do. So you wouldn't want to be the main character in a film. No, I never know. I've got a lot of friends that have done that, and it doesn't appeal to me at all. I I'd rather just be driving my mules and hiding my face from the camera in the background. To me, the mules are the movie stars, not me.

SPEAKER_03:

When you go to these movies, you supply the wagons and all, don't you?

SPEAKER_01:

We do. So uh Alicia and I, we're we're really bad because we can't we it's hard. We see good wagons for sale and we just want to give them a home, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

I know where two's at, I need to send you. You may want to go by.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I gotta make some more money first. We're in the middle of building a house.

SPEAKER_03:

I know how that is. That takes all your money, don't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, well, uh two barns, a house, corrals, drilling a well, everything. Last year, Alicia and I we bought a new piece of ground that when we bought it was just raw ground. There wasn't anything on it. And so we started from scratch with fencing it and drilling wells and putting in cisterns and corrals and buildings and all that, and now we're now we're down to building a house on it, and it it sure uh puts a dent in the income.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey, are you born was you born and raised right there where you're built, like around where you're living now?

SPEAKER_01:

No, actually I I was born in East Texas and grew up in uh southeast Missouri, back in Fortween Texas, Missouri, and then my dad moved out here to Colorado when I was early teenager, and so then I started coming out here instead.

SPEAKER_03:

Where at in East Texas?

SPEAKER_01:

My dad was from Harris County.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. We sell a lot of mules and horses in East Texas. Yeah, yeah. A lot. We're actually gonna do a clinic there next year at Prefort again down at Mount Pleasant. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Hoping to anyway, so But I like it down there in the wintertime. It's too blasted hot down there the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_03:

So is that how you met Phil living in Missouri?

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, living in Missouri. I met Phil when I was probably eighteen, maybe. Okay. Right right before you know, maybe younger than that. Maybe before it was before I joined the army that that I first met him.

SPEAKER_03:

He was a good guy. I really like meeting him when he came and picked up those mules.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh he just left here this morning. He him and his wife Kathy came out here uh last week and they've been here and uh picking music and uh having a good time and what do you do? Stay in a hotel while you're out there, or they got a place for you to stay or Yeah, they've got to stay in here at uh Redstone Inn in Redstone, Colorado.

SPEAKER_03:

So they just pay you to come out and drive for 'em.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's kind of a partnership. Okay. They do the bookings and give us a place to stay and a place to keep our mules and run all the credit cards, and we just do the rides out of the inn. That works good for you. It does. It would be working a lot better for us if it would snow. A lot of people's canceled because of the lack of snow.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you ever see yourself doing your own thing like up in Utah, rides like that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we've looked at it a lot. There's just really no place, there's no venues. What venues are are pretty well hemmed up by other businesses doing like over around Park City, Utah and stuff. There's a sleigh companies over there, but they're already there, you know. We we looked at maybe going to Cody, Wyoming, or uh not Cody, uh Jackson, Wyoming, and doing uh sleigh ride venue up there, but the place that we had to do it on was farther out away from Jackson. They got to drive right past the sleigh ride deal there where they feed the elk and stuff. So it's kind of hard to find a niche to do the sleigh rides. You've got to have a an area that is a pretty, lots of snow, and then be close to like a ski area or something like that that draws tourists in the wintertime.

SPEAKER_03:

Didn't you ride saddlebronx?

SPEAKER_01:

Did I started riding for what's that?

SPEAKER_03:

I thought you told me that before.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I started riding saddlebronk horses before I joined the army. You know, I was still in high school when I started in the rodeo, and I didn't quit riding bronks till I turned 40. You rode them a long time. Years. Years. Yeah, I was pretty worthless for a big section of my life. All I could think about was getting on the next bucking horse. So do you still ride a few bucking horses every now and then or? Not if I can help it.

SPEAKER_03:

You don't try it.

SPEAKER_01:

No, at fifty-two years old, I've had uh a lot of injuries over the years, and now I don't if it's gonna buck, I don't want on it 'cause I can't afford to get hurt.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, true. So you start your mules right so you don't have to worry about 'em bucking.

SPEAKER_01:

We want 'em from the day they're born, we're messing with 'em. We have a gal that works with us. Her name's Joe, and she messes with those babies every day, and by the time it's time to start riding 'em, they've been packed for a season. And so most of time it's just stepping on 'em and riding off.

SPEAKER_03:

Isn't that the girl me and my wife met when we dropped off the mules? Yes. Okay. Yep. I've met everybody but you, Randy.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, ain't that funny? Yeah, and Joe's here with us in Colorado. Driving teams and stuff and uh and we're just uh unfortunately not as busy as we'd like to be.

SPEAKER_03:

I never met Alicia either though. I can't forget about her. I've not met her either. Yeah, we're always off doing something. I think I actually sold her the first team of mules, not you. I think so. Duke and Daisy? Yeah, I think so. I think she she's the one who bought them, I think. She called about 'em first and stuff, if I remember right. Do we buy Laverne and Shirley? Laverne and Shirley, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We still got them too. They're doing good. You still use them? Well yeah. Yeah, they've been in movies, them two. In fact, Laverne and Shirley were casted on Horizon as one of the main actors mules. Yeah. They were really good because they they were so quiet and gentle that even an actor that never seen a horse up close was able to drive them.

SPEAKER_03:

Now, Duke, wasn't he on Killers of the Fire Moon? No.

SPEAKER_01:

No, neither of them were. We didn't have Laverne and Shirley during Killers, did we? No. No, we had Kit and Cat on Killers, and then I had a bunch of other mules that we got we bought in Minnesota.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. What was it like to work with Leonardo DiCaprio?

SPEAKER_01:

Leo was really nice. He was really nice and easy to get along with. He had to ride a horse in that movie, and he had never ridden a horse before. When when you see him on a horse in the Revenant, that's all CGI. Okay. And so he was a little scared of riding, but we got him out there on the horse and got him away from all the people and everything. And uh I looked over and he was, you know, all clutched up on the saddle, holding on the saddle horn. And I I said, Leo, I said, You look, you don't look good on a horse. And he looked at me and he said, You're my guy. You're my guy. He said, You tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. I said, just relax. The horse he was on was gentle. I mean good gentle, gentle. And he finally settled down and relaxed and rode and did good. And the one scene where he was a horseback, he pulled it off pretty good.

SPEAKER_03:

We want to do uh this podcast be in memory of your buddy that passed away. What was his name?

SPEAKER_01:

John Mello.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. He passed away right during all that, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01:

During while we were working on uh Horiz Horizon, he passed away. Yep, I remember when that happened. Yeah, that was a tough one for all of us. John was a was a top-notch fella. He didn't you know what's funny is John didn't like mules when we met, and every every time he was around our mules, he he would drive them and and be and and but still yet he's I don't like mules, I don't like mules, but he liked our mules.

SPEAKER_03:

Let me ask you this question. Why mules?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, uh they hold up better. They're smarter, they're stronger, they're less maintenance. Uh when we're paired up with people with with draft horses, the mules outwork them hands down. We can work in mules every day, all day long, and those horses uh they need two or three days sometimes to recover from one day of working. Whereas our mules, they just keep going, they don't drop weight, and they never never sour up. I know what you're saying. It's just you know, in and in mountains for the packing, you know, if we got a string of eight or nine mules all strung out behind us with the loads and stuff, and we go on, we don't got to even look back. But if you got one or two horses in the mix, they're always wrapping around trees, stepping over their lead ropes, running their packs into trees and stuff, and and the mules don't do that. We don't have to worry about the mules. The horses are always getting into trouble. There you go, folks. Take it from a guy that uses them every day. Yeah. I mean, I like horses, don't get me wrong. I mean, without horses, you can't have mules.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's true, but without without the donkey, you really can't have the mule.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true. Now, for our cow work, I haven't found a mule yet that uh that is really good on the cattle. We had one that uh he was awesome on cows. He you could tie down on him, you could run off and rope a calf way over there, or you could drag a cow in a horse trailer with him, you could cut with him, everything. But then he broke in two and bucked my wife off up in the mountains and broke her femur.

SPEAKER_03:

For some reason I remember hearing that happen too. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah, so we cattle do you run? You run cattle too, I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we run cows on the Green River in Utah. We turn out the cattle uh Mother's Day weekend and they range all the way till the last week of October, and then we bring them home.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, we got a green river here in Liberty, Kentucky, too. I've driven across that before. That's the river that runs right here. That's the same the same river, I don't think. No, no, not the same one. I wouldn't think anyway, but Lordy Day. Someday I'm gonna meet you. We're gonna have to Yeah, oh, I'm looking forward to that. I want to get out west for some time. We're doing a clinic in Billings in June. Billings. Yep. Outside of Billings and Shepherd.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah, we filmed 1923 up there.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Then we're doing a clinic in uh San Diego, California and right on the close to the beach there.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

That'll be fun. Yeah, it will be. I was in Utah in September.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I remember uh talking to you. But we were on the mountain guiding hunts.

SPEAKER_03:

I was in Beaver and Cleveland. Okay. You know, that's south of us. Yeah. Yeah, you're up north. Yeah, we're we're almost in Wyoming. I've been there, don't forget. Yeah, oh that's right. Yeah. I was there. Yeah, at our place. So there how far is your new place from that place I was at? It's about twenty miles northeast of there. Okay. So you're still keeping that place I went to as well?

SPEAKER_01:

No, we just sold it. We actually we sold it right in the middle of hunting season. The gal that we uh that uh is our realtor, she texted us on a satellite texter and said the place that they had she had a buyer, but then she had to drive up the trailhead, and Alicia and I rode out from camp and signed the paperwork on the tailgate of pickup. She drove off the mountain and we had to go back into camp. And Joe and her mom ran the camps while we had to go back home and move everything. And we had had to move everything in in less than a week.

SPEAKER_03:

So during hunting season, you go into camp, how long do you stay in the camp?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it depends. Some of the camps were in for weeks and weeks without coming out. That particular camp, we'd been up there since August, and that camp's in until we start our elk hunts down in the book cliffs. So we're up there for sometimes we're in a wall tent for over two hundred nights out of a year.

SPEAKER_03:

That's not bad though. Them wall tents are pretty comfortable, ain't they?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you love 'em.

SPEAKER_03:

You get used to it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, when you come down off the mountain, it's hard to get used to not being in camp.

SPEAKER_03:

I guess it would be after being in that long. For sure, it kind of feels like home, I guess. It does. It really does. So can people book a hunt with you? You guide hunts for people?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, we're Flying J Outfitters is the name of our outfit and business, and we do all big game species in the state of Utah.

SPEAKER_03:

You should tell the folks how to get a hold of you in case somebody's listening to this podcast that might want to book a hunt with you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's the website is flyingjoutfitters.com. All right.

SPEAKER_03:

And you take them on mules on the hunt.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yep, you'll ride a mule into camp, and then some of the hunts you're hunting on foot from camp, and other hunts you're riding out on a mule or a horse every day from camp.

SPEAKER_03:

What's your favorite thing to hunt?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, for me personally, I I we enjoy hunting predators. My wife and I both like hunting bears and mountain lions and wolves and stuff like that. My dream hunt is a buffalo hunt where we do our elk hunts in the book cliffs. There's a largest herd of free row free-ranging truly wild buffalo in North America are in there. And and so and we take people buffalo hunting, although I haven't actually gotten to draw the tag myself yet.

SPEAKER_03:

So you've been on plenty of buffalo hunts, you just haven't got to kill one.

SPEAKER_01:

That's correct.

SPEAKER_03:

How do you draw a tag? You just have to apply for it or what?

SPEAKER_01:

You gotta apply for it, and your best chance of getting one is to be a non-resident.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, move somewhere else for a little bit and apply. That's not a bad idea. We just sold a team of mules. I don't know if you've seen them or not. They was online, that real pair of nice pair of soil mules we just sold. Sixteen. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they were good-looking mules.

SPEAKER_03:

I sold them to a bison ranch in Kansas, and they have buffalo and they have hunts. And you can book a hunt with them, and they're gonna use those mules to haul the buffalo back in from the f from the out on the plains. Man, that is cool. That's gonna be that they're they've never done it before. They're gonna try it. So uh they're gonna see how it goes anyway.

SPEAKER_01:

That is cool. I really think that's awesome. I I would like to meet those guys.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they're they was super nice people. I never met them either. I just, you know, it's crazy. Like, so many of the customers we sell, you a prime example. I've never met them face to face. We sell so many customers I never even talked to.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you know, talking about it being a small world, I had a gal the other day contacted me uh down in Georgia. Her name's Melissa, and she was looking to go uh drive a quail wagon down there, and she called me and wanted to know if I knew anything about that. I was like, Well, yes, I do. I drove a quail wagon in Georgia a few, you know, many years ago, and so I knew a little bit about it, and we were talking. And I said, Where did you get the mules from? And she said, Oh, it's a guy named Haste. I was like, I know him well. I said, You need to call him and find out about these mules before you go to driving them, you know, and and how they're going to maybe act around gunfire and all the noise and chaos of people shooting at Covey's a quail.

SPEAKER_03:

She listened to you because she called me. She sure did.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, Yeah, she told me that she told me they were going to be driving them with just snaffle bits. I was like, no, you better you better put something in there you can get the woe-nelly on them with because if you don't know how they're going to act when them cov when them quail flush in front of them and the dude start shooting shotguns, I said, You you might want something a little more than a snaffle bit.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, we sell a lot of teams to quail preserves.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I I had a ball doing it. We we really had a good time down there. Uh it was a you know a gentleman's hunt, you know, and man, we'd we'd drive the wagon along through there, and then the birdman would say, All right, right here, you know, and we'd stop and let the dogs out of the wagon, they'd go on point and they'd shoot some quail, and then they'd load up back, and then they'd ride a little bit, and then we'd stop, and they'd have some brandy, or get served some cheese and crackers and stuff like that. It was it was something else. I'd never been on anything like that before.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you use the wagon in your outfitting business?

SPEAKER_01:

We do wagon rides up at Moon Lake, and so people come up there and they stay up at the uh the Moon Lake Resort and Lodge up there, and then they go hiking and horseback riding and stuff like that, and then we take them on a wagon ride around the lake.

SPEAKER_03:

So you're kind of like me. You're making a living with mules and horses, but we're doing it two different ways. Yes, sir. But it's a it's uh it can be a challenge sometimes. It really is. It is. A lot of people don't understand the challenge of making a living with equine. They really don't.

SPEAKER_01:

No, and people that are looking to buy mules, they don't want to pay much for them, and they they won't they don't understand that to buy a good quality mule, whether it's a riding mule or a driving team or whatever, if they're cheap, there's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_03:

I always say good mules ain't cheap and cheap mules ain't good. Yeah. Yeah, you you hit the nail on the head there. And I learned that from experience.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's if a mule team is cheap, there's a they're they're they're not gonna be ver very good or they're gonna be crippled, or there's gonna be something wrong with them.

SPEAKER_03:

And you know, last year, I second my own mind sometimes, you know. Last year we got to looking for mule teams. They're so hard to find to buy and sell, man. They're not out there. That's why we're having to sell so many draft horses, because the mule teams, they just ain't out there to buy.

SPEAKER_01:

No, because people once they get a good team of mules, they usually don't want to sell them.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I told my wife, we need mules, we need mules. Find me some. Get on somewhere and find some. So she got on Facebook and found a team of mules in Mississippi. Well, I loaded up, went to Mississippi. Let me talk about uh went down there to buy mules. I ain't gonna mention no names. But the place I went to to buy the team, he told me all this and that, and I didn't know. I just bought them. I said, What do you want for 'em? He said,$3,500 for the pair. I should have knew better. It was little mules, 14 hands. I couldn't find nothing else, so I bought them, brought them home. When I was leaving, he said, You want to look at more mules here in this area? I said, Yeah, I'm going to. I'm trying to find some. Because I wanted to fill the whole trailer, you know. And he's like, Well, I told him this one guy I was going to look at. He was a preacher. And another guy I was going to look at was a cop. And he told me, he said, You better watch them two. Now, he said, They're crooks. I said, Alright, I'll watch them, buddy. I loaded them mules up. I go to this uh first guy, I went to the cop first. I looked at his mules. He had them. He wanted$20,000 for them. And they was nice, big mules, 17-hand blonde molly mules. I said, How old are they? Oh, 10, 11, 12. I went out there and pried that mouth open. And if I could make them 10, I'd uh they was 10 times 3. Like old. I said, I can't do it. He said, Where'd you buy that mules in the trailer? I said, Oh, this guy over here, I told him his name. He said, Oh, you can't trust that guy. He's a crook. I said, Oh, okay. Well, I'm sorry. I said, I didn't know. I said, Well, I'm gonna go see the preacher now. I done seen it all. I see, I just got done seeing the cop. Now I'm gonna go see the preacher. He said, Oh, I know the preacher, I'm gonna go with you. So I followed him to the preacher's house. And we got there, and the preacher wasn't home, he's preaching a funeral. Well, his wife came out and she had a be a jack down in the field way off. And I said, What's that jack down there? She said, Oh, that's a five-year-old Jack. He won't breed a marriage, he's Jenny's ball. He ain't no good. And I said, Okay, well, I said, Where's your husband? She said, he just texts, he'll be here in a few minutes. He came flying in there, got out in his suit and tie from that funeral. And I said, What about that jack down there? What do you want for him? He said, Oh, he's just coming too. He's starting to breathe mares right now. And I said, Okay, that's nice. I didn't say a word. I just shook his hand, shook both their hands, and he came over to me and he said, Where'd you get that pair of mules in the trailer? I said, From this guy over the road here. He said, You can't trust him. He's a crook. And I thought to myself, if all these people, this was a Facebook deal. I thought to myself, if all these people go through all this every time they try to buy mules on Facebook, I'm glad we do the right thing and try to help people because I would not want to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a nightmare. It is a nightmare. We got in a jackpot like that here a while back. My wife found two mules in Tennessee, and they were little spotted mules. They weren't very big. And kid broke. Kid broke mules. And they sent us a video of these two kids riding in mules. And then he sent us a picture of one of the a great big wagon hooked up to those two mules. And they were crossing some creek, you know, and they looked good. I mean, they were nice-looking little mules, jammed up, and you know, because we were needing more pack animal, pack mules, and riding mules, and then plus it'd be a bonus if they worked. And we paid this guy, he hauled them out there to the ranch, and they might have been kid broke, but not my kids. You know, they they were not.

SPEAKER_03:

I always say, I don't know. There's different types of kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And there's now when I was a little kid, yeah, I would they'd been fine for me, but they knew we were looking for dude mules. That's right. And they said, oh, yeah, they'd be fine for that. No, no, no way, and no way. And then so I hooked them up, and when I hooked them up, you could tell they were soured up bad. They didn't want to drive in a straight line. They took off running sideways, run into the barn. When you try to ground drive them, they would just flip around in the harness and face you and then take off running. It was they they were not, and it was probably because they had that big wagon on them and used them a little bit with too much weight, and they were soured up from it. That's what I figure.

SPEAKER_03:

So now you're just trying to raise all your own pack mules, really, ain't you?

SPEAKER_01:

We're trying to, and we are for the most part. We've got a bunch of young mules that we've got going under pack saddles and trying to get started under saddle. And I would like to get some of them under harness coming up pretty soon here.

SPEAKER_03:

What's your ideal size pack mule in the mountains from a guy that does it? What's your favorite size pack mule?

SPEAKER_01:

We like uh not them great big belt like uh like that size of Laverne and Shirley we got from you, you know. They're they're not great big, but they're not little either. Mostly because, you know, you don't want to hang loads on big tall mules. It's hard, you know, you know, lifting them loads up there. So you do I just say a standard size mule.

SPEAKER_03:

You like a cross, you like a draft cross mule though for packing.

SPEAKER_01:

They hold up better. Yeah. They hold up better. They got the bigger, heavier bone, and uh, they're generally calmer and more quiet. Are you a sawbuck guy or a decker guy? We are mostly sawbuck people. We have a few decker saddles and we use them, but the sawbucks do better. Why? Because we're we pack we we pan your pack. Okay. And so, I mean, we we throw hitches, we manny our loads down and throw double diamonds and and stuff on them. But with the decker, you're strictly happen to to decker your loads, you know, and make your Tootsie rolls and hang them. And, you know, people that decker pack usually you know have the day before to get them loads ready. And we're going to the trailhead and meeting hunters at the trailhead. They're unloading their gear and we're getting them loaded and down the trail, and the and sawbuck style packing is just a lot better for that. It's a lot faster.

SPEAKER_03:

Because you have to pack in hay for all these. Are you are they just graze? You hobble and graze or high line? We hobble and graze, but we do pack in grain. You pack in a lot of grain then. We do. So, yeah, you got all your grain, food for everybody for the time you're gonna be there? Supplies?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we we do, yeah. We we've got to have you know, we usually pack in sometimes up to two, even three weeks worth of food sometimes on one trip, you know, and then we gotta go back up and resupply the the meat and stuff like that weekly.

SPEAKER_03:

You mentioned earlier you sold your place and you got a satellite text. Is that what you all rely on? Communication out there, satellite text?

SPEAKER_01:

We've got, yeah, it's what's it called?

SPEAKER_03:

InReach.

SPEAKER_01:

InREAC.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and it is. Links up to your phone and you text through your phone through that satellite texture. Can you talk on it too? No, sir. No, it's strictly texting. We've tried satellite phones back here in the backcountry, and they don't they just don't work good. You've got to talk really fast and you lose the signal quick because you know them canyons that we're in are narrow, and so you don't have as much time to uh to to acquire a satellite and talk, you know. And sometimes to have a 20-minute conversation takes 10 or 11 phone calls.

SPEAKER_03:

Why don't you try the Starlink Mini, the new Starlink?

SPEAKER_01:

We actually had one in camp during the Spike Elk hunt. Some of our clients actually brought it to camp with them. And it actually worked really good. It does. We but you know, you got to have a power source for it. But not only that, we kind of like being unplugged on the mountain. We kind of like not having our cell phones. To me, that's part of the the nice part of being back there is not having your cell phone go off every five seconds.

SPEAKER_03:

But running a business, ain't it hard to get you calls and stuff?

SPEAKER_01:

It can be. It can be. The messengers, the messenger thing on the satellite, you know, we can handle most everything we need to do on that. And then sometimes during our hunt, we'll get up into high country where we get a sell signal and then we can make some phone calls and get logistical stuff took care of. But most of what we do is our support units that bring us food and resupplies and stuff like that, we just have set times that we know that they're going to be at the trailhead when we get up there.

SPEAKER_03:

Now, on these in these camps and stuff, are you supplying the music for the people too?

SPEAKER_01:

Or sometimes we do. So Phil, he'll come into in into camp and uh bring a guitar or a fiddle, and then my wife Alicia, she plays a guitar too. And and we'll have pickings. Pardon? Do you play? I can play the radio pretty good.

SPEAKER_03:

That works. I mean that's all you got to play. You can play that.

SPEAKER_01:

No. I'm the song list.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, you just tell them what to perform. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the song list. Oh Lord. Well, Randy, it's good to sit here and talk to you for 45 minutes. Yes, sir, it sure was. I appreciate you. Is there anything else you want to mention while you're on here to the viewers out there? Not that I can think of. Any good word of advice for future mule trainers? Patience.

SPEAKER_01:

Patience. Patience. Gotta be patient and and and work 'em. Work 'em. They don't they don't learn anything standing in the pasture.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the truth. That's the truth. That's that's a lot of most people's mistakes. Oh yeah. Alright, guys. Thank you all for listening. Randy, thank you. Yes, sir, thank you, and have a Merry Christmas. You too, and thank Alicia for helping us get hooked up here. I will. Guys, check Randy out on his website. What was it again? FlyingJOutfitters.com. If you want to book a hunt or uh something like that, he'll help you. I re we recommend them 100%.

SPEAKER_01:

We'll take him on a fishing trip in the summertime or a hunting trip in the fall.

SPEAKER_03:

And also, when you're watching some of these movies, maybe look for them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, yep. It's kind of hard to miss this ugly mug.

SPEAKER_03:

Guys, thank you. God bless you, and stay tuned for the next episode of Harness Up with Haste Draft Horses and Mules. Merry Christmas to each and every one of you. God bless you, and we thank you, and we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_02:

Take care.

SPEAKER_00:

As another captivating episode of Harness Up with Haste Draft Horses and Mules draws to a close, we extend our sincere gratitude to our listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey. We hope today's discussions have deepened your appreciation and understanding of these magnificent creatures. Remember, the adventure continues beyond this podcast. Stay connected with us on social media and share your stories. For more information and to explore further, visit drafthorses and mulesforsale.com. Thank you for being part of our community. Until next time, keep harnessing your curiosity and passion for these God given creatures. Farewell for now.

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Elizabeth Haste

Host
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Steven Haste

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