Logging With Draft Horses, Not Machines

What if logging didn’t churn ruts and diesel smoke, but moved to the rhythm of hooves and a steady voice on the lines? We sit down on the porch with John from Down The Trail Logging, a one-man operation powered by two American Brabant horses, to unpack how low-impact forestry works when you swap a skidder for a team. From the first used harness found on Facebook to moving real board footage in tough markets, John shares the craft behind layout, felling, hitching, and hauling your own loads when the region lacks trucking support.

We get practical about the timber economy—why white oak stays reliable, how black walnut becomes a windfall, and why railroad ties are the quiet backbone of cash flow. John explains the hidden math of horse logging: you can’t waste steps, you need sound, conditioned animals, and you win by showing up when the ground is wet and machines sit out. Safety and faith ground the work. We talk about tragedy in the woods, a life-changing highway crash, and the daily habits—prayer, planning escape paths, and honest self-checks—that keep a teamster around for tomorrow.

Community weaves through the story. YouTube began as proof that the work is real and became a bridge for landowners, city listeners, and old hands who miss the feel of lines in their palms. We trade notes on clinics, mentors who teach with clarity, and why beginners shouldn’t expect young stock to pay the bills until they’re fit for it. Above all, we come back to balance: doing right by the woods, the landowner, the mill, the horses, and yourself. If you’re curious about draft horses, low-impact logging, and the blend of grit and grace it takes to make a living this way, this porch chat will stick with you.

If this conversation moved you, follow and subscribe, share it with a friend who loves horses or forestry, and leave a review to help more folks find the show.

Check out our website - https://drafthorsesandmulesforsale.com/

Subscribe to Down The Trail Logging on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@downthetraillogging/videos

Transcript

Porch Intro And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Welcome to Harvest Up with Hastraft Horses and Mules, where we talk all things related to these magnificent animals, their history and usage, to train and care. We cover it all. Join us as we chat with experts and enthusiasts in the field, their stories and tests, and explore the world of draft horses and mules. Whether you are speaking to us about these devil, this podcast is for you. So hard as tough, join haste draft horses and mules for some lively discussions about these God-given creatures.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hey folks, Steven here with Harnessed Up Podcast with Haste Draft Horses and Mules, joining you from the porch. First time I ever recorded the podcast outside on the porch. I kind of like it. Guys, thanks for coming on and listening. We sure appreciate you. Means the world to us, your support. Without y'all, there'd be no reason to do this. So we appreciate it. Guys, the fellow I'm sitting here with right now, we've been trying to get on together for quite some time now, and we finally made it happen tonight, and I'm glad. On a short notice, too. I'm down here in South Carolina and uh I'm on the road and I thought about this fella. I said I might just record a podcast with him tonight. So I reached out to him and it worked out. So, John, how are you doing, buddy?

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Man, I'm doing great. How about yourself, sir?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I'm good, man. Glad to see you on here. I've been wanting to talk to you for quite some time. You uh you just kind of popped up on my YouTube channel. Really? It was a pretty good while ago. I guess it's been a year ago or so. And then of course we're kind of in the same niche, you know, horses and you know, working draft horses, so it kind of refers you to me, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yes, sir. Yeah. I've been watching your stuff for quite a while too. It's uh it's how long how long have you been doing YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Well, I started this channel in 2011. Oh wow. Okay. But I just used it as a platform, you know, to kind of show videos of horses on. I wasn't really serious about it at all, about, you know, getting views or nothing. Yeah. In 2023, I kind of got a little more serious and wanted to, you know, branch it out a little more and use it as more of an advertising platform than just a link to share a video on.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yeah. Well, it's doing very well for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

It's really, really doing good. We're blessed. We're really blessed. It's our YouTube community's been amazing, really, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah. It's been cool to see you grow, you know, from where you started in the old barn and everything to where you're at now. You've really you're really going for it and doing very well with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

We're trying our best, man. We just it's uh it's everyday. You know how it is. Like with your work, it's it's an everyday job, ain't it?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yes, sir.

What Horse Logging Really Is

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yes, sir. Tell the folks a little bit about what you do, because a lot of these people ain't gonna know who you are, but they're gonna know you after this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

So Well, I log with horses. So I do you know, some some people look at me with a blank look when I say that, and basically instead of using a skitter to move the logs or something like that, we use horses to move the logs out out of the woods. So pretty much the same deal as regular logging outfit. We just do it in a different way with a little different root results.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Now, are you going just doing it on your own, like you're your own company, it's just you.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

It's just me. Yes, sir. Yep, a one-man show. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

But you got some help, you got some help with some pretty good Belgian draft horses, though.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yes, sir. They're they're a mix, really. I call them MUTS because I never got papers on, but they're actually American Brabants, is what their their breathing is. And yeah, they've been very good to me. Very good to me. I've had them for six years now. I kind of say this with a lot of I kind of curl my toes when I say this because it can happen any day, but neither one's ever taken a lame step or you know, had bad injury or anything like that, and that's working a lot and moving a lot of logs. So I've been very blessed.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

That's good, man. That's good. Tell the folks where you're from, too.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

I'm in middle Tennessee. So moved up here and I was 18 from from Georgia. So I've been here for quite a while.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Where was you at? Where was you from in Georgia?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Outside of Athens, about 30 minutes. A little bitty town called, well, outside of commerce, Georgia. Yeah, right outside of commerce.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Now, did you did you grow up with horses working teams?

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Nothing in harness, only only saddle horses. Yep. And most of that honestly was just it wasn't there wasn't a lot of like arena work or things of that nature. I would work with horse, I would get horses that other people messed up, and I would spend time on them, and I would make an all-round horse. I could go rope a cow with them, we could go to the mountains, do some rough country riding, what you know, just all around horse that wasn't necessarily the best at anything, but was decent at everything, is kind of just what I tend towards.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

What what started this horse logging? Like what made you want to do it?

Background, Skills, And Self-Teaching

SPEAKER_02 6:13

So I knew enough about forestry where I knew I had a little block of timber, I knew it needed to be logged, and so I was like, I didn't want logged, I wanted logged a certain way, and I was kind of looking around for a piece of equipment to do a low-end pat logging job, and so I'm kind of goofing around the internet looking for a piece of equipment, and I come across these nut jobs logging with horses, and I'm like, well, that's gotta be a gimmick. And uh so I had this little horse named Tank. He's probably about 13 and a half hands or so, and he was as wide as he was tall. And so I bought used harness off of Facebook Marketplace, and I would pause YouTube videos, figure out where everything went. Took me like forever to figure stuff out, and I went to the mountains and I started logging. Not really, not really the advisable way how how go about it, but it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

So you're self-taught.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Started and just kind of soaking it up and started working at it, and then I got around some other people that really helped me up my game and and get better at some things, you know. So yeah, but I was I was moving semi-loads of logs and yeah, doing everything without ever being around their team. I never seen a log arch in person. I was uh built my own log arch. I never I never put a harness on uh around someone or went to someone's house that uh worked horses or anything. I just kinda saw it and said, how how bad it can it be? And you know it's actually it's actually a little more a little more challenging than what the inside some areas than what I thought.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Now you're kind of addicted to it, aren't you? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's a thrill. It's just a thrill to feel them horses pull them logs.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

It is, and I'm kind of past that stage a little bit. I'm you know, the like I'm not a horse puller. I'm alright teaching a horse to pull, and I enjoy watching them pull, but that doesn't float my boat as much as just the sheer challenge of paying your bills logging with them. To to me in in this very difficult market in these modern times, that to me is is is the real challenge and and what I enjoy to do.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

So what are you doing? Just people call you and you go out and cut timber on the halves, or so the percentage varies.

Safety, Faith, And Close Calls

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I I I work off a percentage, yes, sir. Yeah. So I went and worked for someone who used to log with horses a lot, and he kind of got away from it. And so people quit on him and stuff, Jeff Fergie. And I went up there and I started logging with him and in West Tennessee. And I logged there for about two years, and that really helped up my game as far as just being a logger. And and just some things like working a team, working horses as a team and stuff that help bring bring my my education, press pass forward on my education. It's really multiple skill set. You need to be you can make mistakes with equipment that you can't really make with horses. When you go, you know, guys, guys are going out of business using, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth inside equipment, two million dollars inside equipment, and they're wearing their equipment out and not being profitable. So you don't have that slack or that leeway. When you're playing with two horsepower, you really gotta be a little bit sharper how you lay your timber out, you gotta be a little bit sharper how you cut it. You just can't make the mistakes and waste your precious energy that you have with your team. So yeah. Yeah, but you do have to be a logger. Yeah, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

There was a young Amish boy in Crittenden, Kentucky. I don't know if you heard about it or not, but 29-year-old got killed the other night logging.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Really? Do you know if he was cutting timber or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Cutting a tree by himself, and uh they said it looked like he was running away from it, like he was trying to get away and it fell down on him.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, that's why that's why I uh pray, you know, uh every day. You don't know you don't know what's what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Well, that's the only thing you got is prayer. I mean, the Lord's over everything, so you pray and ask him to take care of you, that's the only thing you can do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

No matter no matter if you get killed working or you get killed in a car accident, or however you get killed, everybody's got a time to go, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

That's right. Yeah, that's the thing, and people kind of scold me for working by by myself because it increases the danger odds. But to me, you can die driving down the interstate to an office job and do nothing wrong, and someone's tire blows out and you know swings over and takes you out on the interstate doing a safe job. Yeah, so you know, it was always a dream of mine to be able to work with horses growing up as a kid, and gosh, just kind of answer those prayers for me right now.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Boy, I almost did die on the interstate. I did back in 2017. Really? Yep, I was in Noonan, you know where Noonan, Georgia is?

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I had 12 mules behind me in my F-350 going down I-85 out of Atlanta noon. I don't know what happened. I don't I don't remember. Next thing I know, I run underneath a semi. Really? Sure did. How bad? Grady Hospital down there in Atlanta. I was at Grady for like 47 days. Holy cow, man. It broke every bone from my pelvis to my toes.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Dude. Boy, you're it's a miracle you try. It's a miracle you're still breathing.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

It's caused the good Lord. That's the only reason. Wow. Goes back to what you say about logging, you pray every day, you know. Boy, I always say a grown man don't know how rough he's got it until he's 30 year old and his mom's gotta wipe his rear end again.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

You know, about knocking somebody off their feet.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

And it can happen to anybody just like that. It really can. Did it make you a better person?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Oh, yeah. I was going down the wrong road, man. The the Lord done it to to line me out.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

I truly believe that.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yes, sir. Yeah, we we when you get when you get all the wind knocked out of you, and there's n you're at the very bottom, that's really when like it's like, okay, Lord, you you you have my my attention. Nothing else has has has has my my attention. Uh you know, whatever you say, boss. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

That's right. Where'd you say you was logging at now? You mentioned something.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Dixon, Tennessee. Actually, actually, believe it or not, for a customer of yours, Mr. James Peeler out of Dixon, Tennessee. He bought a team from you, I will say like maybe five years ago, a team of black patrons from you. And he said, he said, Oh, he's a super nice guy, he just talked really highly of you. And anyway, it was it was pretty neat. It was a small world that you happen to reach out to me when I'm working for one of your custom one of your customers.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

I think that had to be back in 2021 when I was still down at the old the old wooden barn down there.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

That's what he said, yes, sir. Yeah.

unknown 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Sure was. Really? Yeah. Well, it's been really neat to see you grow. Uh uh It's been really cool to see you grow. You you've it looks like you're doing really well and you're going all out. No one's doing what you're doing, and you're to trying to reach out to people and bring them in to a place where they can comfortably learn and look at things and try to be up front, and it's pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

We just gotta be honest, that's the main thing. Yes, sir. Yeah. That's what we run. This our business is ran on honesty. That's the that's it. That's the key to life, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah. And helping people, you know, try try to be honest and and and and line things up for people where where they'll be s successful.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, just be a helping hand. That is so important in today's time that a lot of people don't understand. But a lot of these people, I don't know. Sometimes I think, are they really even looking for a team of horses? Or are they just looking for a friend and a community to join to have something that they're missing? You know what I mean? Yes, sir.

Balance Over Bragging Rights

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, and I find yeah, and and it's interesting, though. I find some of the greatest benefits to working with horses is not when things go well and I look good, it's when things aren't going well, and I have to figure out what's going on. And a lot of times, it's what I'm doing. You know, it's not even the horse's problem. It's it's it's what something I'm doing. I don't realize it. You have to stop, be honest with yourself, and and work on things a little bit. So yeah. And you don't want that. Like you you want to look good, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

An old guy told me once, he said, if you're working horses or mules, he said, if you'll just stop and listen, that horse or mule will teach you something every day.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Yes, sir, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And I I truly believe that. You know, I'm we're learning every day. We're not perfect by no means. And, you know, we learn every day, and if somebody wants to give me advice, I'm here for it. You know, I want to keep learning and try to get better, you know, be the best I can be.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yes, sir. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Well. Try to make it to the top. That's what I want to be. I don't I don't want to settle for number three or number two. I want to be number one.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Man, I'm just looking for some sort of balance. If I can, if I can find if I can find a way how to do the woods right, do my landlords right, do the sawmill right, do my horses right, and do me right. Just looking for even kill balance for me. I don't have to be the greyest teamster. I don't have to be the greyest person on a chainsaw. I just need to be good at everything and proficient at everything. You know, kinda kind kind of just have some sort of balance to to life there.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Do you you got a sawmill too, you say?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

So no, sir. I I just haul haul to them and sell and sell to sawmills. Yes, sir. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

What's the main lumberwoods you're cutting right now? Are you is red oak still big or white oak or what?

Markets, Ties, And Timber Realities

SPEAKER_02 18:58

White oak is the best seller as far as a common species. The best, of course, be black black walnut that people are hauling for. And my brand butter or the product I handle the most is ties. That that's the highest percentage of material that I handle. So, you know, that's just kind of like the steady brand butter. Nobody's getting rich. It's just a more of a steady market there, and it's the lower grade lumber that needs to be handled and dealt with. And when the good stuff comes along, you're you're grateful for it.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Well, I'm dumb on this stuff. Ties. What are you talking ties? So railroad ties.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

It would be like Yeah. It's generally like the top of trees or the lower value trees are used for railroad ties. So the U.S. exports a lot, we we use a lot. So in my part of the country, now in other parts of the country, the timber is worth a lot more, and it's not so common. I'm in kind of the foothills of Tennessee, kind of choppy. We do grow some good timber, but the majority of our timber would be Thai material. You know, just not super high grade.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Guys, if he's real blurry, he is in rural Tennessee with not good service. So he kind of looks blurry on my screen. I hope he's not when he comes when we get this come out, but if he is, it'll just be what it'll be. It's the best we can do, ain't it, John?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Well, it it it might be saving people. I'm not really meant for the for the screen, you know.

Working Wet Ground And Steady Output

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Oh hey, man. You're I've did podcasts with a lot of people. You know, I've did it with PBR rodeo stars, I've did podcasts with Kentucky Derby winning trainers. Next week I'm actually recording one with a guy that's uh on the run for the million at the reining competition. Wow, nice. And it's good to do it with those, you know, I call them more famous people, but my favorite podcast are with just good old country folk like you, just sit down and talk. That's that's always the best ones, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

And the blurry, you know, that's that that that that's just that's just the extra, you know, blessing on top, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Hey, I can hear you great, though. I mean, I can hear it, so the sound's gonna be great. Good. Good. Yeah. Are you ever gonna work mules, John?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Hey, if if if y'all mule mafia people will let go of a good pair sometime, absolutely. But I need to keep my right arm and my left kidney when I when I do buy a pair. So, you know, just as soon as you hook me up with a really good pair, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

You ought to start taking in young stuff and working it.

Hauling Solo And Owning The Outcome

SPEAKER_02 21:58

I have a lot. Of people want me to work their stuff actually after uh Columbia down here for the first time in the history of Mule Day in Columbia, Tennessee. They've opened up to a tight trace farm class pool for the horses and mules, and so that's gonna be great. So after that, I got some more stock to work. I'm helping Mr. James work his what people don't realize is you can't make money with young stock logging. The you you gotta do a lot of things that you shouldn't ever do, like drop your lines and go do stuff, move stuff, trim some branches, whatever. Um and you need an athlete. The the standards are much higher than what they used to be. So to be able to move the board footage that you need to move to survive, you need a sound, well-fed, well-conditioned, well-handled animal to be strong enough to work all day and you know have a rhythm and a pace day in, day out, and not burn out. So it need you know, your nutrition needs to be right, your shoeing needs to be right, your harness needs to be right. You can't have any slack there because we're just to survive our competition is scatters now. Our competition isn't other horse loggers, like back in the 60s or 70s or whatever. So the standard, you know, since we can move so much more volume with modern day equipment, is devalue our timber to some extent. So that forces us as horse loggers or mule loggers to move more board footage as well. So, you know, you can't just take in a young animal and just start expecting them to move the it's like me going trying to run marathon, it just isn't gonna happen in six months or a year, it might happen, but right now it's just not going to happen. So it's a little bit like like that. Um you just have to be built up to it and have a really good pair of horses to be profitable, yeah. So anyway, so working young stock, absolutely, but as far as you know, some people think, hey, you go just take the this this young stock and work them, and you can get paid to train and make your and pay your bills, work on. No, you can move some timber, but it's not gonna be the volume that you really need to survive, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah. One thing I really like about horse logging is with the horse logging, you save the woods a lot more.

Filming, Audience Connection, And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 24:55

It's a it's a very different end product or or end job. It's very different. Um, yeah, it it's it's it's nice. Um and the woods aren't messy.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

You've got to be able to log, you know, in a lot of weather, different weather conditions, you know, a skitter, you gotta have pretty good dry land to get out and work. But with the horses, can't you get in when it's not as dry?

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Absolutely, absolutely. We can't produce the volume or anywhere near the volume, but we're more steady, so we don't miss as many days off. You know, if you're motivated, you want to. You won't say, Oh hey, it's wet, it's too wet, you know, you can use for excuse to stay at the house. But many times you can still go out there and work and not tear up the land and do a really nice job and just kind of steadily, it's kind of a steady rhythm. If you can get out there, if you have to sit out two or three weeks extra out of the year, that can be the difference between you being profitable or not profitable. So if you can, you know, just steadily go out there and have a steady rhythm, it really helps.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because, like the days all the skidders take off three or four or five days in a row, you can be out there working. So the volume, it actually adds up, you know, it's pretty close, maybe the same even.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

No, they're gonna move a whole lot more than us for for sure. We're just going to supply our logs in less burst and a more steady supply. You know, we do move, I I I kind of tend to come and go in waves. If I move a lot a lot of logs one week, I have two days of trucking the next week. And if I don't move so many, which means I don't move very many logs, which means the following week, I don't have one day of trucking, so I have an extra day in the woods. So then I generally move a lot of logs on that week or or more logs. And uh so my board footage does fluck fluctuate, depends on how much time I have to spend that truck and whatnot. But yeah, I would say we get to supply logs in more steady, just a more steady flow for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

You got your own truck to truck your logs with and everything, or do you hire it out?

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Or I would love to hire out. I am very envious. Yeah, I got friends up north in different places. They just have a knuckle boom truck come out and pick up their logs and haul it. I that that does not exist in my area. I'm very jealous uh uh of my friends that have that available to them. So yeah, I I have my own train.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

You have to haul everything yourself, yes, sir. Yes, sir. One man show. Yeah. Yeah.

Clinics, Mentors, And Teaching Draft Skills

SPEAKER_02 27:52

But it's good, you know, it it you don't have anybody to uh blame. Whenever something goes wrong or there's a problem anywhere, you don't have anybody to to to whine at or complain, you know. May maybe I do to my horses sometimes, but you know, it's it's it's good because you uh everybody knows, you know, hey, something's done right, you know, you know who did it, and something was done wrong, you know who did it. So I like that.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Well, one thing, if I was out there myself like you are as much, I'm not a I don't know. I I can be by myself. I'm not saying I'm not, I don't like to be alone, but I like being with people and talking to people. I'm a people person. I talk on the phone all day, every day. So if I was out there like you are by myself with those horses every day, I'd be talking to them horses.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, yeah, quite a bit. Quite quite a bit. They that they are, you know, they they uh they uh it's less like you know, people think it's more like uh a honeymoon, it's a little bit less like a honeymoon and more like a marriage, I think. You you at the end of the day, you're you're kind of happy some something to you know have it have have your own space, a break from each other a little bit, and the next day you're always happy to to to to to see each other. But you know, they know when you're having an off day, and you know when they're having an off day and when to cut each other's slack and and stuff, so yeah, it's fun. I'd rather work with them than than mostly anybody.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

You need a good dog to take to the woods with you, that's what you need. In time, in time. Filming for the YouTube channel too, though, kind of keeps you busy when you're logging too, if you're making videos.

Keep Learning And Finding Good Guidance

SPEAKER_02 29:48

You know, I was doing that mainly to try to help because I I would tell people I log with horses, and they would give me just a blank look like you're not serious. You're you're you're too young, you're you know, no one does that anymore, you're not serious. So the YouTube channel is kind of a way to politely feel people, you can say, hey, go check out my channel, and people could see that hey, no, you I'm actually moving logs with horses, I'm actually working, paying my bills with horses, and it was just a easier, I'm not good with with people, so it's just an easier way for me to show people that hey, you know, I'm not just talking, I'm actually doing this. And so that that was cool. Now my name's gotten out to the point where I really don't need it, quite frankly. Work's come in pretty good. It's all word of mouth, which is the the best. And so I don't know how long I'll be on there. At this point, it's mainly just for some people I enjoy watching, and you know, it's still fun. So, but some at some point I I'm not a YouTuber, and I don't imagine I I'll be on there long term.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I consider you a youtuber. I think you do a great job.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Well, thank you. No, no, you're you're your editing and your videos flow together very nicely. You do an excellent job with your channel. I really do enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

It took me a while to learn it. A boy like me. I had to learn, you know, it's a lot to it on these computers.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's why I admire really that's why I admire really blank, dull, no music, no, no flashy stuff, just kind of a dull, boring clip.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Hey, sometimes them's the best.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

It you know, it is interesting. Some people really do enjoy. I think people get tired of the sensory overload and the flashiness. I think some people enjoy just watching something that's calm sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

I think people enjoy the friendship of it, the com the connection. Like, I don't know if you feel this or not, but I do. Like, I can watch people on YouTube. I've never met the person, I have no idea who they are. But you start following their channel, you get a connection with them.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yes, sir. That's true. That's true. Well, well, it's funny because I I have people come up to me that I've never met and just start talking to me like we're best buds. I don't know their name. I've never seen this person before, but they've watched the YouTube channel, and they they kind of know me from that, and I don't know them, and kind of catch me off guard sometimes. It's like trying to think, have I ever met? I'll ask them, have we ever met before? And no, but you you're you're exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

We're to the point now where we get noticed a lot. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Well, I don't know if we you go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

It froze up right now.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

I don't know I don't know anybody else that is doing what you're doing. Like, you know, you you you're you're selling something, you have you know, these animals in a way no one else is, you're putting yourself out there away, invite people to come, stay at your place. I saw you have a really awesome cabin there for people to stay. You do driving, you know, lesson or seminars there, I guess, and stuff, which is what we really need. We need just, you know, hey, easing people into it and just kind of you know it's it's a difficult thing to if you've never done it before, there's a lot to it. Like it sounds easy, hey, drive these horses over there, but just the harnessing and the and the care, and there's actually a lot to that is a there's a decent learning curve to it. So it's it's really neat that you're putting yourself out there in the way that you are, because you know, some people it doesn't mean that much to them, and other people it just means the world to them. They they just love driving a team and and and they just really enjoy the big horses with the big mules. And you know, it's it's really neat that you're helping people take those steps into it.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Well, you know, one thing I'm trying to do is I don't want it to make I don't want it to be just selling somebody a team or just selling somebody a cart. I want it to be a friendship, a relationship. I want us to be an avenue for people to come to learn, but to feel like you know, we care for them, you know. I want to build a community up. That's what I'm trying to do, where everybody cares for everybody, everybody loves everybody, and we all help each other, and that's what we're trying to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Well, that's that's that that's even a bigger uh uh undertaking, but you're you you're doing it, so that's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

I like it. You know what we need to do sometime? What's that? When we have a clinic at the house, we need to invite you up for a login demonstration.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

I tell you what, that that'd be cool, but I tell you, I tell you would be even uh who you need to invite down, Brent Ainsworth. The dude he's he he actually has a little you you a little you YouTube channel, and he's not actually that great at YouTube. What he is phenomenal at. He he's phenomenal at several things, but one thing he's phenomenal at and he is passionate about is teaching people about draft horses and driving them and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Is he from New York? Yes. I've run across this channel before. I actually have.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

He he he really enjoys seeing people start out and just improve and you know and just take steps and improvement and whatnot. You know, that's that's kind of he and he's gifted that. He in person, he's very personable, and he's good. You know, he's he's an on-mix, you know, a lot of people are good at teaching, and some people are good at being a practitioner. He's actually good at both. So he's actually good at the driving and fine-tuning, and he's he's not shabby at all on any level, really. And he's also really passionate about teaching. And so, anyway, I would highly, if you have a clinic or anything, he he's he's phenomenal. He's he's having one coming up up north in uh New York. I'm thinking about going to it.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

He he he's anyway. I think I think it'll be really good.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

I ought to do a podcast with him.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

You should do a podcast and have him come down. Absolutely. He's very well spoken. He's he's unlike me. He's only been playing with draft horses for eight years or so. He's he's been playing with draft horses since he's a little big kid, and his friends were into it, he's into it. He grew up logging with them and working, and he's just he's still passionate about it, you know. So, absolutely, and very very well spoken and a good advocate for most things to do with working horses.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

One thing about it though, you know, everybody was playing with draft horses that's done it a long time. Everybody was doing it for eight years at one time.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

That's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

You gotta start somewhere, you know.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Well, you do, you know, and that that's what's great about it, is that I'm not burnt out on it. I'm still learning, it's still it's great. You know, when I fell off that boat, I fell off head first, and I'm still sinking. I haven't hit hit the abolum yet. So it's it's great for for for me. Growing up, drive forward's always about it, though.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Even this Brent guy you're talking about. If he's not learning every day, he's done. We gotta learn every day. You quit learning, you never quit.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

That's right. That's right. Yeah, we gotta learn every day.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Tell the folks about your YouTube channel how they can find you, because I know a lot of them is gonna want to watch you after this.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Well, you can just type in down the trail logging, and I believe it should pull up. And if you see a dopey pair of uh Red Roan uh horses, that's probably me.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Good deal. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put the link to your channel in the description so folks will see it.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Sir, that's awesome. I really do appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Link in on there and check it out. Have you got to where you're actually making a little money on YouTube though?

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Oh yeah, yeah, and uh yeah, it's it's actually slowing down. I I've put less and less effort into it. It it has and it's been good. And I tell you, I'm much more passionate about working my horses and logging. I'm I'm passionate about it. I'm not passionate about you YouTube. So I enjoy it. I I've met some really the best part about YouTube, about YouTube by by far is meeting people. I've met quite a few friends from it, and it's been it's been great that way. But I I get I get a little I feel a little silly running around the woods filming stuff and filming myself, and it it feels it feels a little silly sometimes. Um so yeah. But but it's been very very good to me.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

You know, I used to feel that way too. Like when I do trip vlogs by myself, going down the road holding the camera at myself. I'm driving here today, you know, it does kind of feel a little weird at first.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

It still does to me, for sure. For sure.

unknown 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

The funniest things to me is like when I go in a gas station and I'm filming, showing people what I'm doing, people trying to look at you like.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

You know, you're talking with friends, you're having just you're getting to know people and stuff, you just don't want to pull a camera out and and mess things up. You you just want to enjoy the moment, enjoy the people that are there. And you know, it's it's good, it's good because there's people that can't be there. You know, it people enjoy watching these horses and whatnot that can't ever own a horse. They live in a city, or you know, they just aren't it isn't available to them to own a horse. So it is good for for or older people that used to, you know, own horses and work them and stuff, and and now they they can't. Um, so there that there's good things about it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

I get a lot of comments like that on my YouTube, like my grandpa worked horses like this, or I used to own horses. Thank you for bringing back the memories.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yes, sir. It's true. It's true. It is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah. We get a lot of people come out. Back a few months ago. I should have done a full YouTube video on it, but I only done one little short. We had a 97-year-old man come out and we give him a carriage ride. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

The highlight.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

We put him on the carriage with a skid steer and a pouch.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Hey. You know, that's the highlight of his year right there.

unknown 42:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

It was. It sure was. And you and you know what was funny about that is that's also sometimes the highlight of my year.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

You know, and and and bring getting to to give people the opportunity to do that, it is pretty neat.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Exactly, it is. Well, John, is there any last words you want to tell the people? Any advice you have for people out there maybe wanting to start into this horse logging or draft horses in general?

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Find a good mentor, just have a bucket of salt there, you know, and just have patience. And you know, it it doesn't happen overnight, especially when you start entering into something like horse logging. It's a lot more dangerous than what the film really shows and stuff, and so just kind of ease into it. And if you're having trouble with stuff, just someone like you or or your clients or whatever, meeting people that's been there, done that, and just kind of feeling your your way through. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion. I I don't think there's a single older person I've ever pleased with my driving or anything else because they all have their own opinion. If you deviate in one way from the way they did it, you're doing it wrong. But as a whole, you know, there's there's good people out there that'll kind of guide you down the the right path.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

I always say everybody's got an opinion, and everybody's right because. Because we're all entitled to our own opinion.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

But, John, thank you for coming on here with me. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Hey, sir, I appreciate you. You have a great one.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

You too, buddy. Guys, thank you all for watching. God bless each and every one of you. And until the next Harness Up Podcast, we sure hope to see you soon. Keep harnessing up your horses. Guys, we're going to try to get back on track with these podcasts. I've been real busy and it's hard to always do it, but I'm going to try to make it a point to record more. I got some really good ones coming up. Also, guys, I'm supporting our new mule hat tonight. A lot of y'all may remember back in the old days when I was growing up, old men wore these hats that said mule on them like that. And I always remembered them, and I wanted to recreate them, so I did. I've got brown on right now. I've been wearing this one. We got blue ones and black ones. If you're interested in those, check us out on our website at www.drafthorses and mulesforsale.com. Also check us out on YouTube. We're on social media, all across the board at Haste Draft Horses and Mules. Thank y'all. God bless you, and we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

As another captivating episode of Harness Up with Haste Draft Horses and Mules draws to a close, we extend our sincere gratitude to our listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey. We hope today's discussions have deepened your appreciation and understanding of these magnificent creatures. Remember, the adventure continues beyond this podcast. Stay connected with us on social media and share your stories. For more information and to explore further, visit Drafthorses and MulesForSale dot com. Thank you for being part of our community. Until next time, keep harnessing your curiosity and passion for these God given creatures. Farewell for now.